Whenever I’ve seen the Countess of Wessex in the past week, she looks like ten kinds of hell. Truly, I’m not judging – it’s been said that especially after Sophie’s mother passed, Sophie looked to Queen Elizabeth II as a surrogate mother, and QEII looked to Sophie as a second daughter. They were very close, and Sophie continuously reminded royal reporters of their closeness. Sophie genuinely looks like she’s going through it now that QEII has passed away. Now, is Sophie also calling up royal reporters to get them to remind everyone that she needs to be “elevated” now that Charles is in charge? Yes. She is.

Sophie actually did the same thing after Prince Philip died and it came back to bite her in the ass. Edward and Sophie was supposed to become the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh when Philip passed away. The Wessexes went on a full PR blitz following Philip’s passing, encouraging everyone to write about how they would soon have those titles. They didn’t count on the DoE title reverting back to Charles, and Charles deciding to hold onto the title indefinitely. Charles shut it down and he also told them both to stop with the obvious PR campaign. Well, guess who’s back on her bullsh-t.

It may be considered a final, poignant nod to the daughter-in-law who called her “Mama”. Queen Elizabeth II’s title of the Duchess of Edinburgh will pass to the Countess of Wessex if, as expected, Prince Edward succeeds his father as the Duke of Edinburgh.

Such a move would elevate the status of the Countess at a time when her role becomes notably more significant – one of just a handful of working royals in the new, slimmed-down monarchy. The decision rests in the hands of the King, who has held the title ever since his father’s death. However, the late Prince Philip had made his wishes clear: when the time comes, his youngest son should be given the title. Prince Charles was said to agree and the deal was all but rubber-stamped. Last year, following the Duke’s death, speculation swirled that Charles had had a change of heart.

One source told the Sunday Times: “The Prince is the Duke of Edinburgh as it stands, and it is up to him what happens to the title. It will not go to Edward.”

Experts believe it likely that the title will eventually be passed to the Earl, who has already taken on the responsibilities associated with his father’s hugely successful Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme. To do so, a new dukedom of Edinburgh would have to be created by letters patent but such a move is not unprecedented. The gesture would provide a fitting link between the late Queen and her daughter-in-law.

There’s more in that piece about how Sophie was a “second daughter” to the Queen and how of course the Queen would have wanted Sophie to become a duchess and “By taking on the Duchess of Edinburgh title, Sophie will raise her profile further. The Queen now gone, she is rapidly becoming an integral part of the future Firm.” In case King Charles III needed the point underlined yet again, the Times of London also had a piece with much of the same energy: Sophie needs a bigger role, Sophie needs to be Duchess of Edinburgh, Sophie is important. We’ll see if it works this time, girl. The last time, Charles shut it down thoroughly. I suspect he will again, but who knows.

Photos courtesy of Backgrid, Cover Images. Manchester, UNITED KINGDOM – Prince Edward and his wife Sophie, the Countess of Wessex visit Manchester ahead of the Queen’s funeral. The royal couple visit the Council’s book of condolence at Manchester Central Library to add their signatures, before moving on to view the floral tributes left in St Ann’s Square by locals in mourning. The pair will also visit Manchester Cathedral to light a candle for her late Majesty and view their books of condolence and meet with volunteers involved with managing the tributes. Pictured: Sophie Countess of Wessex BACKGRID USA 15 SEPTEMBER 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication* Manchester, UNITED KINGDOM – Prince Edward and his wife Sophie, the Countess of Wessex visit Manchester ahead of the Queen’s funeral. The royal couple visit the Council’s book of condolence at Manchester Central Library to add their signatures, before moving on to view the floral tributes left in St Ann’s Square by locals in mourning. The pair will also visit Manchester Cathedral to light a candle for her late Majesty and view their books of condolence and meet with volunteers involved with managing the tributes. Pictured: Sophie Countess of Wessex BACKGRID USA 15 SEPTEMBER 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication* Prince Edward And Sophie Countess of Wessex views messages of condolence at Manchester’s Central Library during a visit to the city, following the death of Queen Elizabeth II. Featuring: Prince Edward And Sophie Countess of Wessex Where: Manchester, England, United Kingdom When: 15 Sep 2022 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages.com/Cover Images **North America Rights Only** Prince Edward And Sophie Countess of Wessex views messages of condolence at Manchester’s Central Library during a visit to the city, following the death of Queen Elizabeth II. Featuring: Prince Edward Where: Manchester, England, United Kingdom When: 15 Sep 2022 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages.com/Cover Images **North America Rights Only**

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You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. 98 Responses to “Countess Sophie really, really expects to become the Duchess of Edinburgh now” Amy Bee says: September 16, 2022 at 8:25 am All the best to Sophie even with the DoE title, she’s going to be considered a minor royal. Reply Colby says: September 16, 2022 at 8:26 am To be fair, I’m unclear why Charles is hoarding the DOE title. Keeping it for one of Williams kids? Aside from that, it seems unreasonably petty. Which isn’t surprising I guess. Reply Laura D says: September 16, 2022 at 8:32 am Up until the events of this week I honestly thought he was going to give it to Harry as an enticement to come back to the UK on the original “half in, half out” basis. However, on witnessing his appalling treatment of his son (at a time when everyone should be pulling together) I sadly admit I got that one completely wrong. Reply SarahLee says: September 16, 2022 at 8:16 pm @Laura I thought the same – he was holding it back for Harry. But now? Who knows…. The Duchess says: September 16, 2022 at 8:43 am Petty is Charles’ middle name. Reply AnnaKist says: September 16, 2022 at 11:57 am Oh yes, and as king … Charles has waited for ever to have this power. It’s hilarious; nobody wants to curtsy to Kate. Lady Esther says: September 16, 2022 at 9:03 am @Colby I agree with you, it’s logical that Charles is withholding the DoE title. First, he wants “slimmed down royals” (in everything but money, LOL) and rewarding Sophie & Ed with elevation won’t give him that – it prolongs their “branch” of the family being prominent. Furthermore, keeping everyone guessing is in Charles’ best interest, so I bet we’ll see these press shenanigans from Ed/Sophie and Charles for a while yet. Second, as I said in another thread I bet Charles has already promised the title to William for George at his marriage. It’s a very high level title and it makes sense William would want to grab it for his own son, rather than give it to the 4th son of a dead monarch…. Reply TangerineTree says: September 16, 2022 at 11:09 am If KC3 really wants a slimmed down monarchy, then he should stick to his guns and not give E the Edinburgh dukedom. The world is changing, and if the title is bestowed on the Fiestas, that potentially could extend that branch of the family’s influence for hundreds of years. KC3 has bear the brunt of present ill will, but he and W should work together on this. Sunday says: September 16, 2022 at 9:05 am It is entirely petty, which makes sense coming from the man who tried to deny his veteran son of wearing his uniform while everyone around him wears Halloween costumes adorned with stolen valor. It’s especially petty because Charles took the time to publicly announce the new titles for the Prince and Princess of Wails (lol) about one second into his reign, so he very easily could’ve also announced the Wessexes as the DDoE and waxed poetic about carrying out his parents’ wishes, but he opted to keep stringing them along instead. So, he’s either vindictive and petty or ill-prepared and bumbling, and neither option are a good look for a king. Reply SJ (they/them) says: September 16, 2022 at 9:37 am Re: your last line, don’t forget it could be all of the above! lol Mary says: September 16, 2022 at 9:37 am @Colby, I was thinking that one reason was because of the Duke of Edinburgh Prizess with which Sophie and Edward have been very active for the duration of their marriage. If it has any prestige at all in the uk, I am thinking that Charles, and William, would want it to go to one of William’s children. I am very surprised that Charles may want to go against the known wishes of both his parents on this issue. The queen should have reiterated her intention that this title go to Edward when she announced that she wished Camilla to be known as Queen consort. Watch out Charles. Sophie could write a book. Reply Cessily says: September 16, 2022 at 9:38 am What I don’t get is that if the Queen wanted her to have the title why didn’t she bestow it to them before her death? The fact that she didn’t says a lot. Reply Feeshalori says: September 16, 2022 at 9:42 am @Cessily, she couldn’t because Charles inherited that title upon Philip’s death so he was the DOE until it reverted back to the crown when he became king. What she should have done was as Mary said and made it crystal clear that Edward would receive this title according to hers and Philip’s wishes when she announced that Camilla would receive the QC title. Lindsay says: September 16, 2022 at 9:45 am Legally the queen couldn’t bestow it because it did not belong to her or to the Crown. Titles pass through the male line. When Phillip died, the title passed to Charles. The queen would have had to strip the title from Charles in order to bestow it on Edward, and I think that would require an act of Parliament. Mary says: September 16, 2022 at 9:49 am This was a regular, plain ol’ Dukedom created for Prince Phillip. As such, when Philip died it was inherited by his oldest son, Charles. To take the title away from Charles would have been hugely complicated, involving parliament, so they just waited until Charles became king so that the title merged in with the crown and all of his other titles. Now, at this point, as King, Charles can freely give the title to someone else. So, the Royals have always known that Charles would have to hold on to the Duke of Edinburgh title until he became King before he could give it to Edward.. Edit:. Oops, while I was slowly typing, others answered your question @colby, hope the issue is clear now! lucy2 says: September 16, 2022 at 9:52 am Right? Surely she knew what her children were all like, and shouldn’t have trusted they’d do as she wished. Why do they want this so bad? I don’t get it, all this petty squabbling over titles and attention and “status”. aftershocks says: September 16, 2022 at 3:24 pm Ummm, Sophie and Edward certainly knew they wouldn’t get the D&D of Edinburgh titles right after Phil died. They surely would know that the Edinburgh title is first passed to Charles and then reverts to the Crown when he becomes king. They know that Charles could only give them the title once he became King. And it’s considered a new issuance of the title because Edward would not be directly a inheriting it from Philip. I agree S&E should have chilled and not made so much noise about the title right after Phil died. But we also don’t know what could have been transpiring between them and Chuck behind-the-scenes at that time. Charles is seeming to be an uncaring tyrant. Maybe the Wessexes felt they needed to make a public bid to garner sympathy that might sway Charles into abiding by his agreement with Phil and Betty to give Edward the Edinburgh title when he could confer it as king. Of course, P&E going public post Phil’s death, received major pushback from Charles, so they are risking bringing it up again. Perhaps S&E feel the need to remind Charles again, especially since he rewarded the lazy Cambridges immediately. Reply A says: September 16, 2022 at 4:56 pm The indications at the time of Philip’s death re the DoE issue is that Charles was hanging onto the title out of a sense of sentimentality towards his father. But I also think, the overall plan had always been exactly this. That once Charles became king, and the title reverted to the Crown, he would create the title again for Edward. I wonder though, if this wasn’t really made clear to Sophie at the time, or if she didn’t know how it worked, which is hard to believe, but also kinda makes sense. OriginalLaLa says: September 16, 2022 at 8:27 am The pic of Edward in front of the people – yikes, so much to unpack. It looks both like he is a zoo animal being gawked at and like he is mildly horrified by the uncouth, smelly peasants being too close. Reply Pinkosaurus says: September 16, 2022 at 8:55 am Just reminds me how terrible he was to the brown people assisting the Queen with the subway. He really is racist, weak and worthless. Reply TIFFANY says: September 16, 2022 at 9:00 am Yet he wants the Edinburgh title. Funny that. For all of Philip’s issues, he had better game when out in public. Reply Mel says: September 16, 2022 at 10:24 am Phillip was a weird one. Totally uncouth and out of pocket with his mouth at times but seemed to have a sweet, soft spot for kids. The story at the time of JFK’s death is at the White House reception after the funeral, Jackie went into a room to get a break and caught Philip playing with JFK jr. When they went to London a few years later, he held JFK jrs hand at unveiling for the SR. Jfk. Go figure. Cairidh says: September 16, 2022 at 12:01 pm I read Philip when visiting the White House in the 60s made a point of being nice to the black butler, can’t remember what he did, might have been singling him out to talk to, having a drink with him? To counter the anti black racism that was still prevalent in America at that time. Cairidh says: September 16, 2022 at 12:09 pm Oh I looked it up. Philip invited two black butlers to have a drink with him but only if he, Philip, could serve. And apparently all the house staff at the White House were black. To get around segregation. aquarius64 says: September 16, 2022 at 8:27 am Yep Sophie is pushing for the title because of the promise made. But considering the Sussex kids titles and her nastiness to Meghan I’m glad the Wessexes are being made to sweat. Reply SussexWatcher says: September 16, 2022 at 8:28 am The snake clasp on her bag seems appropriate. I’ll never see anything else in her besides her nasty behavior toward Meghan at the CW service. Not sure how elevating his youngest brother fits in with his slimmed down monarchy plan, but sure, Wessexes, keep begging. Reply Over it says: September 16, 2022 at 10:21 am I am not sure that Sophie face in these pictures are all about the death of Betty, Sophie looked on the day she had to share a car with Meghan, I think it was Tuesday, like she was seriously pissed off and livid that Harry and especially Meg was being given so much seniority over and next to her, she thought Meghan should have been placed in the back of the bus. That’s why that face was set that way. So yes, the snake on her bag is perfect for her.you will never be able to convince me that Sophie isn’t a mean girl like her bestie Katie keen Reply BUBS says: September 16, 2022 at 10:36 am Lol. I just remembered seeing a picture of her car ride with Meghan and how she angled forward so the paps would get a clear view of her face, while Meg sat calmly with her back straight as usual. Fiesta knew that was the only way she’d get mentioned in the press as Meg would always be the center of attention! She’s out here fighting for her life! MA says: September 16, 2022 at 4:51 pm Did anyone also notice that she went ahead of Meghan who is ranked higher? She also stood ahead of Meghan next to Kate. She actually broke protocol, we finally have a real example instead of the one based on Meghan being black C-Shell says: September 16, 2022 at 10:56 am I noticed the serpent clasp immediately, too! So appropriate, but an odd choice, Soph! Her face was stone cold during the car ride with Meghan to Westminster, right on brand for her mean girl behavior at the CW service, but I’m so impressed with Meghan’s composure and grace in the face of all the cruelty these harpies heap on her pretty head. Reply ML says: September 16, 2022 at 8:30 am This family is so amazingly dysfunctional! However, Sophie may be acting pushy here, but she’s right in that it was expected that Edward would inherit Philip’s Edinburgh dukedom. Petty Pennington has not fulfilled that promise for whatever reason, but considering how unpopular he himself is and how few family members are around to help him out, he should think long and hard before denying Edward Afterthought this title. Reply Digital Unicorn says: September 16, 2022 at 8:41 am I believe it was both the wish of Phil and TQ that Edwards get the DoE title, esp as Edward has always been very involved in the Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme – he took it over as Patron when Phil retired. Reply Becks1 says: September 16, 2022 at 8:55 am Wasn’t it announced when they were married? That he would be the Earl of Wessex, their children would be styled as the children of an earl, and it was the queen and Philip’s wish to make them DoE when the time came. So its not like we’re just guessing this is what the queen and Philip wanted. Digital Unicorn says: September 16, 2022 at 9:19 am Yep it was but who knows what Chuck 3.0 will do. Pumpkin (was Sofia) says: September 16, 2022 at 8:30 am Her mother-in-law isn’t even buried yet she’s already started numerous briefings. This is the… third article I think, that I’ve seen about her being such an “important part of the family”. Even W&K haven’t started briefing the papers yet (fully at least) about how they’re going to be the greatest and best Prince/Princess of Wales the country has ever seen. Honestly I don’t think Charles will change his mind if he’s dead set on not giving E&S the title. A lot of public pressure could change his mind but let’s be honest, E&S are not going to get a lot of people offended on their behalf that they’re not DDoE. At this point Sophie should just hope she can remain a full time working royal. Reply equality says: September 16, 2022 at 8:34 am Kate has started briefing about “forging her own path”. Will has kept silent. Perhaps the married-in’s feel less secure? Reply Seraphina says: September 16, 2022 at 8:41 am The married -ins know they are disposable and easily replaceable. First, look at how blood relations are treated. Second, Charles is divorced. He really can’t look down on anyone wanting a divorce. Pumpkin (was Sofia) says: September 16, 2022 at 8:52 am That was one phrase in a 3 line statement on the day they got their titles. It’s been pretty radio silent after that. Although I have no doubt they’ll do full on briefs after the funeral. And even then, it’s not the same thing as briefing papers at least 3 different times. Sunday says: September 16, 2022 at 8:55 am Will hasn’t kept silent at all – first there was the article by his mouthpiece Richard Kay about how William, not Charles, deserved all the credit for including the Sussexes on the walkabout, and then today’s front pages are all about “William’s Agony” and how sad William is because it all reminds him of his mom. If anything, he’s pushing more narratives than Kate at the moment. equality says: September 16, 2022 at 8:57 am 3 articles doesn’t mean Sophie briefed 3 different times. These people all pick up each other’s articles and add their own embellishments. equality says: September 16, 2022 at 10:46 am @Sunday He hasn’t said anything about being POW. Brit says: September 16, 2022 at 8:32 am Sophie sees the writings on the wall but why suddenly leak about Harry and Meghan? Does she want money? What’s the motivation? Because why would she get the Dukedom of Edinburgh by being nice to the Sussexes? Shouldn’t she be up the Wales’ backside for that? Reply equality says: September 16, 2022 at 8:34 am Maybe she thinks it will draw support for her from the many who have been defending Meghan on SM? Reply BayTampaBay says: September 16, 2022 at 8:32 am There is no way that Edward could become the Duke of Edinburgh until Charles became King, the title “Duke of Edinburgh” merged back into the crown and was available to be reissued. If Chucky III had died before QEII, the “Duke of Edinburgh” title would have passed “father to son” to Prince William. Upon the dearth of QEII and ascension of KCIII , the “Duke of Edinburgh” title passed to and merged with the Crown. If Camilla gets to be Queen Consort due to QEII’s “wishes” then Edward should be “Duke of Edinburgh” due to QEII AND Philip’s “wishes”. Since Andrew is retired Chucky III meeds the Wessexes more than ever to step=up and take on more work. Give your brother the title your mother wanted him to have. Reply ML says: September 16, 2022 at 8:42 am @BayTampaBay, you explained this better than I did. I’m not a Sophie fan, but the title was promised to them. If William and Kate can become P&P of Wales shortly after QE2’s death, seemingly Edward can upgrade as well. Reply L84Tea says: September 16, 2022 at 8:46 am I agree. This is one case where I agree with Sophie. Philip and Liz wanted Edward and Sophie to get the titles, so he should just give it them. Charles certainly doesn’t need it. William doesn’t need it–he’s POW now. I know some said Anne could get it, and I admit it’s a sentimentally nice thought, but ultimately it should go to Edward because that’s what Philip wanted. Reply Becks1 says: September 16, 2022 at 8:57 am Yeah, the title was not Charles’ to hand out until the title reverted to the Crown (when he became king.) the title did not “revert” to Charles when his father died, it was passed down to him as the oldest son of the Duke of Edinburgh. It wasn’t available to be handed to Edward until the queen died. now, the title should go to Edward. Reply windyriver says: September 16, 2022 at 10:03 am What’s the current status of the Duke of Cambridge title now? Does Will still hold it in addition to POW? Would that be something to be passed to George? Reply Feeshalori says: September 16, 2022 at 10:15 am William still holds all his titles and is currently the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge in addition to the POW title. George will ultimately inherit these titles when/if William becomes king, although POW isn’t inherited but conferred. And if William wanted, he could grant Louis the Cambridge dukedom if the DOY title isn’t available if Andrew is still alive. That normally goes to the second son of a monarch but that title might be shelved for awhile because of its tainted association with Andrew. Becks1 says: September 16, 2022 at 11:29 am George will become Duke of Cornwall when William is king but I think Cambridge will revert to the crown, right? Feeshalori says: September 16, 2022 at 12:03 pm I believe it does, so William could grant it to George but most logically Louis would get the title especially if the DOY one isn’t available or won’t be used. Nic919 says: September 16, 2022 at 12:40 pm Yes Cambridge would revert to the crown. I suspect charles might keep Edinburgh for George. Giddy says: September 16, 2022 at 10:12 am I wonder at CIII’s motives for not making Edward and Sophie the D&D of E. Does he enjoy seeing them sweat? Is he enjoying his new powers? It does seem seem unkind, but that doesn’t bother me as Sophie was such a bitchy Countess to Meghan. She needs to be reminded that it is so easy to be kind, and sometimes costly to be cruel. I have to wonder how CS treated Meghan in private quarters, and if she ever gave Camilla the cold shoulder. Reply Mrs.Krabapple says: September 16, 2022 at 3:51 pm Camilla would have been queen consort regardless of Elizabeth’s wishes or not (just as Camilla really WAS the Princess of Wales) — but having Elizabeth’s approval means the public will accept it. Giving Edward Duke of Edinburgh was said before the whole fallout with Andrew. Maybe “understandings” changed in exchange for Andrew being protected after Elizabeth’s death? Or, Andrew’s Duke of York title was — at that time — a possibility to give to one of William’s children or grandchildren, because Andrew has no sons who can inherit. But now that the title is tainted, and will probably be retired after Andrew’s death, William will need something to replace it. Duke of Edinburgh would not be available if it goes to Edward because Edward has a son who would inherit it. On the other thread, some speculated it could go to Anne, which would make sense because her children would not be able to inherit from a woman, and it would be available again after Anne dies. At any rate, if William has his eye on that title for his son or eventual grandchild, Edward is out of luck. Reply tamsin says: September 16, 2022 at 8:38 am This is my understanding of this unnecessary drama created by the press: The dukedom was supposed to be conferred after the death of both parents, and I think that was stated at the time. With Philip’s death, technically Charles would have inherited the title, because he is the eldest son, and the Queen, bizarre as it is, would be the dowager Duchess of Edinburgh, which is how titles work. Upon the Queen’s death and Charles’s elevation to king, the title reverts to the Crown, and can be remade for Edward. I’m sure the press knows how titles work; they just want to create controversy. That’s not to say that Charles isn’t petty and may have enjoyed making Edward and Sophie “suffer” so to speak. Reply molly says: September 16, 2022 at 10:27 am Also, the Queen planned every second of this funeral week. (Another fact the press knows.) Do they think she didn’t have input into the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh thing? “I want 12 spotlights in my hearse, not 10… and Charles can just figure out whatever he wants about Edward and Sophie and the titles, I don’t care what he does.” That’s not to say Charles isn’t making decision despite her wishes, but there’s a plan. The bestowing of (real and fake) titles is the whole POINT of the monarchy. Reply tuille says: September 16, 2022 at 8:38 am I’m surprised that Edward wasn’t duke’d of someplace a long time ago unless it’s only 1 dukedom per person & he has to wait for DofE. Andy got York but Eddie’s just an earl? Does a duke’s wife automatically become the duchess or could the female title go to someone other than the spouse? Reply Sid says: September 16, 2022 at 9:36 am The story is that Edward asked to be titled “Earl of Wessex” because he heard the title in a movie and liked it. If not for that I’m pretty sure QEII would have dug up a duke title for him, as that has long been the custom when a son of the reigning monarch gets married. He gets a dukedom. So in a way, Edward played himself. It could have easily been “Edward gets dukedom whatever now, then when Philip passes and Charles eventually becomes king, dukedom whatever goes back to the crown and he becomes DoE.” Reply Feeshalori says: September 16, 2022 at 9:47 am Ed saw the movie Shakespeare in Love and Colin Firth’s character was the Earl of Wessex. He liked the title so much that he asked his mother to create him that upon his wedding. Otherwise, he may have become the Duke of Cambridge. I suppose at the time it seemed logical to hold off on a dukedom for him if he was promised the DOE title, but who knew that down the line his elder brother would turn out to be such a petty vindictive guy. He probably should’ve grabbed his Duke title at the time and run with it. QuiteContrary says: September 16, 2022 at 6:40 pm That is so hilariously dumb that he wanted to be the Earl of Wessex because of a movie. SenseOfTheAbsurd says: September 16, 2022 at 10:35 pm OMG, seriously?? That’s hilarious. I suppose we should be grateful he didn’t ask for Count Chocula. Shadeau Marie says: September 16, 2022 at 9:46 am Edward and Sophie got married in 1999 when the BRF was not in a very great place after Diana’s death. Edward asking to “only” be Earl of Wessex rather than made a duke was supposedly his own choice (after a character in Shakespeare in Love) but was really an attempt to downplay the whole title business and make him look modest. The payoff was to be him getting the DofE title once his parents were gone. And yes, a duke’s wife automatically is allowed to style herself as a duchess and no one else can get it – it isn’t a real title, just a “courtesy title” derived from her being married to the duke. Reply Seraphina says: September 16, 2022 at 8:43 am Poor poor Sophie. To have been given promises and worked hard (which encompasses who knows what) to try and secure those promises – and then a change of regime changes it all. Poor Sophie, welcome to the rest of the world we plebes live in. Working are butts off and then a change in management changes it all. Poor poor Sophie. Reply Lola says: September 16, 2022 at 8:50 am Wondering how this works. Sophie never became princess regardless that her MIL was the queen nor did her kids get automatic prince/princess so why do H&M kids have the automatic title as grandkids of monarch ?? Sophie is not even a duchess yet . Can someone who knows more please explain Reply Talia says: September 16, 2022 at 8:55 am Sophie is technically Princess Edward but the title of Countess takes precedence. Her children did get the Prince / Princess titles, they just don’t use them. It’s confusing because the press spent years using the wrong title for Diana – she was never Princess Diana, she was HRH the Princess of Wales and later Diana, Princess of Wales. Reply molly says: September 16, 2022 at 10:42 am Princess Michael of Kent is the one active royal family member who uses “Princess [husband name].” I personally think it’s because she wanted a royal title, and marrying the youngest son of the youngest son of a monarch wasn’t going to get her much. Being called “Princess”, regardless of what came after it, was all she wanted. She’s also a racist POS, so there’s that. EBS says: September 16, 2022 at 2:12 pm @Molly Princess Michael is definitely a racist PoS, but that’s her only title, she doesn’t have any others to use. The others go by Countess of Wessex or Duchess of X because those are considered higher than, I.e., Princess Edward. (There’s also Princesses Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and Charlotte, but they are born royals so they get to be Princess Firstname.) Becks1 says: September 16, 2022 at 9:05 am sophie, as a married-in female, is only entitled to the female version of her husband’s title. So since Edward was made an earl, not a duke, she was/is a countess. No non-blood royal becomes a princess in their own name, so Princess Diana, Princess Kate – incorrect. Kate is the Princess of Wales, but not Princess Kate. And that has nothing to do with her FIL being king in itself, its just because he named William Prince of Wales (so kate gets the feminine version of that.) Prince William, Prince Harry, Prince Andrew, etc are all because they were born royal. there’s an old rule (the letters patent we keep discussing) that says that the grandchildren in the male line of the monarch are entitled to HRH Prince/ss. So that means that Sophie’s children were entitled to it, but it was announced at their wedding that their children would be styled differently. As Harry and Meghan’s children are now grandchildren in the male line of the monarch, they are now HRH Prince/ss. Reply Cerys says: September 16, 2022 at 9:05 am The British royal family and their titles can be confusing. Sophie became HRH Princess Edward on her marriage. Edward was gifted the title of Earl of Wessex when he married so she also became the Countess of Wessex. If the British royals are given a title then they tend to use it rather than their original prince/princess title. She cannot be Princess Sophie since she is not a blood princess. Diana was incorrectly called Princess Diana when she married. Her official title was HRH The Princess of Wales. I have no idea about the grandchildren of a monarch and their titles 🙂 Reply Mrs.Krabapple says: September 16, 2022 at 4:04 pm As Cerys said, Sophie IS royal, she is HRH Princess Edward. But she is also Countess of Wessex. Her children are not royal despite what Sophie tries to tell people (“they can choose when they turn 18”). When Edward got married, Elizabeth stated that his children shall NOT be styled “HRH” as children of a prince, but only styled as children of an earl. That’s why his son is Viscount Severn (Ed’s lesser title) and Louise is “Lady.” I know people think Ed’s kids are “HRH” because of the letters patent in 1917, but Elizabeth expressed her pleasure in 1999 to overrule the 1917 letters specifically with respect to Edward, and that’s all it takes to bestow or remove “HRH.” Going forward, Ed’s kids can become HRH if Charles says so. That’s all it takes, an expression of the monarch’s pleasure. But I doubt Charles will do that. Alternatively, William can bestow that title when he eventually becomes king, so it doesn’t hurt for Sophie and Ed to kiss up to William too. If Ed becomes Duke of Edinburgh, then James will likely start going by “Earl of Wessex” at that time. Reply Hannah says: September 16, 2022 at 8:59 am We often goss about the PR leaks from BP, CH & KP. But *forget* Sophie had her own career working in PR. It would be remiss to think Sophie is not also putting out her own positive PR puff pieces (or someone on her pay role) Reply ThatsNotOkay says: September 16, 2022 at 8:59 am Does she need the title to laugh at brown people again and play dumb regarding Commonwealth gripes with the Crown, or… Reply Maddie says: September 16, 2022 at 9:02 am I’m so glad you brought this up. There have been more than one story in the fail about her and also one about her daughter Louise! It was so obvious! They didn’t even wait until she was in the ground to start campaigning for the title Reply Margaret says: September 16, 2022 at 9:12 am Question, could Anne and husband be given the position, as a female?. I heard Anne was Phillips favorate.. sorry Sophia, but I don’t like you, you nasty mean girl. Reply Jttrain says: September 16, 2022 at 9:15 am Spouses gotta be freaking! If the press is going to continue to focus on Meghan, and the family doesn’t want her in the parade…all spouses gotta stay in the car! Reply Over it says: September 16, 2022 at 9:25 am I don’t care if Charles is petty to Edward and sophie. He is much more petty to Archie and lili and their parents. Sophie is mean just like Kate , she just is better at hiding it and Edward is just as racist so whatever Charles doesn’t give them they both deserve. Reply Well Wisher says: September 16, 2022 at 9:25 am It was reported at the time of their wedding that Edward will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh although it would legally revert to now king. At that time, he assured both of his parents that he will honour their wishes in that regard, Sophie is expecting that he does that. It was passed on to the fail, that all talk of titles in general is premature, that all info regarding titles will be announced after a period of mourning. That would include whether the Sussexes children will have their HRH. Reply Lizzie says: September 16, 2022 at 10:07 am Edward was a dummy who turned down Duke of Sussex(I think) at his wedding preferring Earl of Wessex. No tears for him or Fiesta. They have a gigantic estate and live pretty well so they should work hard. Reply Red Weather Tiger says: September 16, 2022 at 10:12 am Probably a dumb question, but why didn’t QE2 give Eddie a dukedom when he married Fiesta? I mean, she could have. Not DoE, obviously, as that was taken at the time, but some other rando dukedom? Edited: oh it WAS a dumb question! He turned down a rando dukedom! Well then. Stay a Countess, Fiesta. Reply Chantal says: September 16, 2022 at 10:50 am Yeah, good luck with that. But if KC was smart, he’d stop being an a-hole and bestow the title on his younger brother. He needs all the help and positive PR he can get and the people see that the Wessexes actually “work.” Maybe increase their budget so Sophie can up her style game, sheesh. Also, increasing the visibility of the Wessexes might prove a valuable incentive to get the Wales off their asses (they’re not supposed to be overshadowed you know). More jockeying of positions and the Queen hasn’t even had her funeral yet… Reply tamsin says: September 16, 2022 at 11:01 am On the other hand, let’s be patient about this. Charles has to “create” the title again, and he will do so after a period of mourning is over. At the same time, he can think about not issuing new letters patent to take away Archie and Lili’s birthright. That’s assuming Charles will do the right thing. Reply K8erade says: September 16, 2022 at 11:36 am Lol. This along with Anne getting a new elevated title? I got my money on Anne being named Duchess of Edinburgh. KC has no love for Edward and he hates how Edward and Sophie put themselves out there the way they have. Reply Isabella says: September 16, 2022 at 11:51 am “Sophie was a “second daughter” to the Queen.” This is insulting to Anne, as if she we not enough and a woman with no royal blood was needed to prop up the queen. Sophie and Edward will fade out now that the queen is gone. Kate and William don’t need her and Charles is indifferent. They have no charisma, so the press barely covers their events. Reply Saucy&Sassy says: September 16, 2022 at 6:08 pm Isabella, I don’t think it takes anything away from Anne if Elizabeth thought of Sophie as a second daughter. I’m not sure what “royal” blood has to do with it. Wow, talk about classist. I think CIIIPO needs to take a look around him and count the number of people who are working. Other than Fails & Wails and Anne, who is working? Not TQ’s cousins because they should be allowed to retire, and I suspect they will. He either needs to keep the Wessexes working, or he needs to find other warm bodies. Anne is only 2 years younger than he is, so she’s not going to be working for very long. Fails&Wails take up space, but work is not part of that space. I think he’d be smart to bring in Beatrice & Edo, assuming that they would do it. They might be okay with Uncle Chuck, but I don’t think they want to be dependent on Cousin Fails for anything. Reply Tessa says: September 16, 2022 at 6:13 pm I don’t think Sophie was all that close to the Queen. I think that has been exaggerated. Sophie did say some indiscreet things about the royals to the fake sheik. The QUeen may have forgiven her but I doubt it made Sophie a second daughter. Reply Erin says: September 16, 2022 at 12:24 pm The way I understood it Sophie and Edward couldn’t be made DOE/Duchess until the Queen died. Charles as the oldest son inherited DOE. It reverted to the crown when Charles became King, and now would need to be recreated for Edward. It was both the Queen’s and Philip’s wish so it’s going to look bad if he doesn’t do it. This is an easy win for him. Reply Margaret says: September 16, 2022 at 12:44 pm I hope he gives to Anne, full stop. Reply Well Wisher says: September 16, 2022 at 6:10 pm @Erin – Spot on. Reply Annalise says: September 16, 2022 at 8:33 pm But if it was Charles’ plan all along to give Edward the DofE when he became king, then why not make that clear? At least in private to E & S, he could have assured them, so they wouldn’t have to embark on these embarrassing “please make us Ds of E please please please, mummy said you have to!” campaigns. Plus, I seem to remember a spokesperson for Charles stating on the record that E is NOT going to be DofE. I think Charles doesnt want E to become DofE because he knows how much E would unwittingly do to further the Independence movement in Scotland, just by being his classiest, elitest, tone deaf self Reply L4Frimaire says: September 16, 2022 at 12:56 pm The fact is, regardless of what his parents wanted, Charles is now King. This is the same guy who said he wouldn’t remarry after divorcing Diana, then that his current wife wouldn’t be named queen, yet here she is. He will do what he wants to do, and Sophie needs to stop begging. Charles does not like “pushy” women. Maybe they’ll get it, maybe not. They’re still wallpaper. Also, this woman does not know how to dress herself. The term blousy comes to mind. Reply Linder says: September 16, 2022 at 2:01 pm I hope she gets the title she wants. She’s allowed to be ambitious. Right? Reply L4Frimaire says: September 16, 2022 at 4:01 pm Not in their world, at least not overtly, and she’s all in on that way of thinking. Don’t they want these women to know their place? Reply Lucy says: September 16, 2022 at 3:53 pm I think the Wessexes should get it, if only for the hilarity of Scotland leaving and taking the dukedom with them. If Edinburgh is no longer part of the UK, what then? Might as well be Duke and Duchess of Jersey. Reply HeyKay says: September 16, 2022 at 4:59 pm IMO, Sophie and Edward and their kids should be promoted somehow. W&K and their kids have a solid 10-12 year range before George, etc. can be moved into working royals. Anne is what 72 y/o? Nobody should expect her to work more. Heck, she out works Kate for years already. Andrew has got to be out all together. That leaves Edward and family to pull some of the weight of royal duties. Are Andrews daughters going to move up their royal schedules? Are they popular or skilled enough to draw crowds of supporters? King Charles can talk “stream lining” all he wants to but, it’s gonna be tricky keeping the Monarchy open for business as usual. Australia has several celebs/politicians who’ve stated they want Australia to govern itself. I read a few articles in which they were careful to say how much they love The Queen, and now is not yet time to put it to a vote….but I wonder in 2-5 years time will their still be countries willing to stay under KC3? Canada seems to mellow and polite to move on, yet. Yet. Charles has plenty on his plate. His advisors had better be very good. I keep thinking what if Charles passes in a few years? Does anyone think William, at barely 40, could do the job? Not yet. Reply Tessa says: September 16, 2022 at 6:35 pm I doubt Charles will let Bea and Eugenie do royal duties. I think Eugenie would not want to in any case. Louise is going to University and James will go in a few years. I don’t think they will do royal work either. He has to get William and especially Kate to work a lot more Reply Tessa says: September 16, 2022 at 6:11 pm If Charles makes it known he wants Louis to get the title, it won’t happen for the Wessexes. William would also want Louis to have the title so the Wessexes can give up the idea Charles may bestow it but make the wessexes wait. Reply Flower says: September 16, 2022 at 6:21 pm I think there has so much white-washing around why Sophie and Edward and their titles. However I did find @Mrs.Krabapple’s post very interesting. It’s also interesting the narrative that has been weaved around Edward i.e. (1) he liked a title and so gave up the opportunity to a Dukedom and (2) Prince Philip wanted his son to inherit his Dukedom. No 2 sounds vaguely plausible but No1 sounds like a fairy tale made up by courtiers to cover up the fact that the Queen likely didn’t want to give Sophie a Duchess title based on past events. My reasoning being (1) Edward and Sophie had been together over 5 years before he proposed and during that time both of them gave various interviews in which he made it clear, very publicly that they had no plans to get married. Shortly before E&S were due to get married her colleagues at Capital Radio leaked topless pictures of her and she was constantly embroiled in scandal around that time. Also Sophie actually proposed something similar to what H&M wanted and the Queen actually allowed it – and Sophie continued working for the PR firm she had set up. In any case the media were obsessed by Sophie at the time and really went for her and she was later caught up in the fake Sheikh controversy, which conveniently meant she had to become a full time working Royal. During that sting Sophie made numerous rude and disparaging comments about the Queen and alluded to her being able to use her position to influence (watch the tapes – they’re gold). Fast forward and she is now a very hardworking fulltime Royal. Anyway all the above to say that I think the Wessex’s were not given a Dukedom bc at the time the Queen did not like or trust Sophie. I suspect that they didn’t see Sophie and Eddy going the distance or her adapting to their way of life as a very driven career woman. Also it was all shortly after the time of Diana’s death so the Queen would have been sensitive to that also. Clearly Sophie then worked incredibly hard to be accepted by Liz and Filip but I really don’t buy the Shakespeare in love story. Reply Beverley says: September 16, 2022 at 7:52 pm I haven’t forgotten how Fiesta was horrid to Meghan. I hope Sophie gets nothing. Reply Commenting Guidelines Read the article before commenting. We aim to be a friendly, welcoming site where people can discuss entertainment stories and current events in a lighthearted, safe environment without fear of harassment, excessive negativity, or bullying. 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All the best to Sophie even with the DoE title, she’s going to be considered a minor royal.

To be fair, I’m unclear why Charles is hoarding the DOE title. Keeping it for one of Williams kids?

Aside from that, it seems unreasonably petty. Which isn’t surprising I guess.

Up until the events of this week I honestly thought he was going to give it to Harry as an enticement to come back to the UK on the original “half in, half out” basis. However, on witnessing his appalling treatment of his son (at a time when everyone should be pulling together) I sadly admit I got that one completely wrong.

@Laura I thought the same – he was holding it back for Harry. But now? Who knows….

Petty is Charles’ middle name.

Oh yes, and as king … Charles has waited for ever to have this power. It’s hilarious; nobody wants to curtsy to Kate.

@Colby I agree with you, it’s logical that Charles is withholding the DoE title. First, he wants “slimmed down royals” (in everything but money, LOL) and rewarding Sophie & Ed with elevation won’t give him that – it prolongs their “branch” of the family being prominent. Furthermore, keeping everyone guessing is in Charles’ best interest, so I bet we’ll see these press shenanigans from Ed/Sophie and Charles for a while yet.

Second, as I said in another thread I bet Charles has already promised the title to William for George at his marriage. It’s a very high level title and it makes sense William would want to grab it for his own son, rather than give it to the 4th son of a dead monarch….

If KC3 really wants a slimmed down monarchy, then he should stick to his guns and not give E the Edinburgh dukedom. The world is changing, and if the title is bestowed on the Fiestas, that potentially could extend that branch of the family’s influence for hundreds of years. KC3 has bear the brunt of present ill will, but he and W should work together on this.

It is entirely petty, which makes sense coming from the man who tried to deny his veteran son of wearing his uniform while everyone around him wears Halloween costumes adorned with stolen valor.

It’s especially petty because Charles took the time to publicly announce the new titles for the Prince and Princess of Wails (lol) about one second into his reign, so he very easily could’ve also announced the Wessexes as the DDoE and waxed poetic about carrying out his parents’ wishes, but he opted to keep stringing them along instead. So, he’s either vindictive and petty or ill-prepared and bumbling, and neither option are a good look for a king.

Re: your last line, don’t forget it could be all of the above! lol

@Colby, I was thinking that one reason was because of the Duke of Edinburgh Prizess with which Sophie and Edward have been very active for the duration of their marriage. If it has any prestige at all in the uk, I am thinking that Charles, and William, would want it to go to one of William’s children. I am very surprised that Charles may want to go against the known wishes of both his parents on this issue. The queen should have reiterated her intention that this title go to Edward when she announced that she wished Camilla to be known as Queen consort. Watch out Charles. Sophie could write a book.

What I don’t get is that if the Queen wanted her to have the title why didn’t she bestow it to them before her death? The fact that she didn’t says a lot.

@Cessily, she couldn’t because Charles inherited that title upon Philip’s death so he was the DOE until it reverted back to the crown when he became king. What she should have done was as Mary said and made it crystal clear that Edward would receive this title according to hers and Philip’s wishes when she announced that Camilla would receive the QC title.

Legally the queen couldn’t bestow it because it did not belong to her or to the Crown. Titles pass through the male line. When Phillip died, the title passed to Charles. The queen would have had to strip the title from Charles in order to bestow it on Edward, and I think that would require an act of Parliament.

This was a regular, plain ol’ Dukedom created for Prince Phillip. As such, when Philip died it was inherited by his oldest son, Charles. To take the title away from Charles would have been hugely complicated, involving parliament, so they just waited until Charles became king so that the title merged in with the crown and all of his other titles. Now, at this point, as King, Charles can freely give the title to someone else. So, the Royals have always known that Charles would have to hold on to the Duke of Edinburgh title until he became King before he could give it to Edward..

Edit:. Oops, while I was slowly typing, others answered your question @colby, hope the issue is clear now!

Right? Surely she knew what her children were all like, and shouldn’t have trusted they’d do as she wished.

Why do they want this so bad? I don’t get it, all this petty squabbling over titles and attention and “status”.

Ummm, Sophie and Edward certainly knew they wouldn’t get the D&D of Edinburgh titles right after Phil died. They surely would know that the Edinburgh title is first passed to Charles and then reverts to the Crown when he becomes king. They know that Charles could only give them the title once he became King. And it’s considered a new issuance of the title because Edward would not be directly a inheriting it from Philip.

I agree S&E should have chilled and not made so much noise about the title right after Phil died. But we also don’t know what could have been transpiring between them and Chuck behind-the-scenes at that time. Charles is seeming to be an uncaring tyrant. Maybe the Wessexes felt they needed to make a public bid to garner sympathy that might sway Charles into abiding by his agreement with Phil and Betty to give Edward the Edinburgh title when he could confer it as king.

Of course, P&E going public post Phil’s death, received major pushback from Charles, so they are risking bringing it up again. Perhaps S&E feel the need to remind Charles again, especially since he rewarded the lazy Cambridges immediately.

The indications at the time of Philip’s death re the DoE issue is that Charles was hanging onto the title out of a sense of sentimentality towards his father.

But I also think, the overall plan had always been exactly this. That once Charles became king, and the title reverted to the Crown, he would create the title again for Edward. I wonder though, if this wasn’t really made clear to Sophie at the time, or if she didn’t know how it worked, which is hard to believe, but also kinda makes sense.

The pic of Edward in front of the people – yikes, so much to unpack. It looks both like he is a zoo animal being gawked at and like he is mildly horrified by the uncouth, smelly peasants being too close.

Just reminds me how terrible he was to the brown people assisting the Queen with the subway. He really is racist, weak and worthless.

Yet he wants the Edinburgh title.

For all of Philip’s issues, he had better game when out in public.

Phillip was a weird one. Totally uncouth and out of pocket with his mouth at times but seemed to have a sweet, soft spot for kids. The story at the time of JFK’s death is at the White House reception after the funeral, Jackie went into a room to get a break and caught Philip playing with JFK jr. When they went to London a few years later, he held JFK jrs hand at unveiling for the SR. Jfk. Go figure.

I read Philip when visiting the White House in the 60s made a point of being nice to the black butler, can’t remember what he did, might have been singling him out to talk to, having a drink with him? To counter the anti black racism that was still prevalent in America at that time.

Oh I looked it up. Philip invited two black butlers to have a drink with him but only if he, Philip, could serve. And apparently all the house staff at the White House were black. To get around segregation.

Yep Sophie is pushing for the title because of the promise made. But considering the Sussex kids titles and her nastiness to Meghan I’m glad the Wessexes are being made to sweat.

The snake clasp on her bag seems appropriate. I’ll never see anything else in her besides her nasty behavior toward Meghan at the CW service.

Not sure how elevating his youngest brother fits in with his slimmed down monarchy plan, but sure, Wessexes, keep begging.

I am not sure that Sophie face in these pictures are all about the death of Betty, Sophie looked on the day she had to share a car with Meghan, I think it was Tuesday, like she was seriously pissed off and livid that Harry and especially Meg was being given so much seniority over and next to her, she thought Meghan should have been placed in the back of the bus. That’s why that face was set that way. So yes, the snake on her bag is perfect for her.you will never be able to convince me that Sophie isn’t a mean girl like her bestie Katie keen

Lol. I just remembered seeing a picture of her car ride with Meghan and how she angled forward so the paps would get a clear view of her face, while Meg sat calmly with her back straight as usual. Fiesta knew that was the only way she’d get mentioned in the press as Meg would always be the center of attention! She’s out here fighting for her life!

Did anyone also notice that she went ahead of Meghan who is ranked higher? She also stood ahead of Meghan next to Kate. She actually broke protocol, we finally have a real example instead of the one based on Meghan being black

I noticed the serpent clasp immediately, too! So appropriate, but an odd choice, Soph! Her face was stone cold during the car ride with Meghan to Westminster, right on brand for her mean girl behavior at the CW service, but I’m so impressed with Meghan’s composure and grace in the face of all the cruelty these harpies heap on her pretty head.

This family is so amazingly dysfunctional! However, Sophie may be acting pushy here, but she’s right in that it was expected that Edward would inherit Philip’s Edinburgh dukedom. Petty Pennington has not fulfilled that promise for whatever reason, but considering how unpopular he himself is and how few family members are around to help him out, he should think long and hard before denying Edward Afterthought this title.

I believe it was both the wish of Phil and TQ that Edwards get the DoE title, esp as Edward has always been very involved in the Duke of Edinburgh Award scheme – he took it over as Patron when Phil retired.

Wasn’t it announced when they were married? That he would be the Earl of Wessex, their children would be styled as the children of an earl, and it was the queen and Philip’s wish to make them DoE when the time came. So its not like we’re just guessing this is what the queen and Philip wanted.

Yep it was but who knows what Chuck 3.0 will do.

Her mother-in-law isn’t even buried yet she’s already started numerous briefings. This is the… third article I think, that I’ve seen about her being such an “important part of the family”. Even W&K haven’t started briefing the papers yet (fully at least) about how they’re going to be the greatest and best Prince/Princess of Wales the country has ever seen.

Honestly I don’t think Charles will change his mind if he’s dead set on not giving E&S the title. A lot of public pressure could change his mind but let’s be honest, E&S are not going to get a lot of people offended on their behalf that they’re not DDoE. At this point Sophie should just hope she can remain a full time working royal.

Kate has started briefing about “forging her own path”. Will has kept silent. Perhaps the married-in’s feel less secure?

The married -ins know they are disposable and easily replaceable. First, look at how blood relations are treated. Second, Charles is divorced. He really can’t look down on anyone wanting a divorce.

That was one phrase in a 3 line statement on the day they got their titles. It’s been pretty radio silent after that. Although I have no doubt they’ll do full on briefs after the funeral.

And even then, it’s not the same thing as briefing papers at least 3 different times.

Will hasn’t kept silent at all – first there was the article by his mouthpiece Richard Kay about how William, not Charles, deserved all the credit for including the Sussexes on the walkabout, and then today’s front pages are all about “William’s Agony” and how sad William is because it all reminds him of his mom. If anything, he’s pushing more narratives than Kate at the moment.

3 articles doesn’t mean Sophie briefed 3 different times. These people all pick up each other’s articles and add their own embellishments.

@Sunday He hasn’t said anything about being POW.

Sophie sees the writings on the wall but why suddenly leak about Harry and Meghan? Does she want money? What’s the motivation? Because why would she get the Dukedom of Edinburgh by being nice to the Sussexes? Shouldn’t she be up the Wales’ backside for that?

Maybe she thinks it will draw support for her from the many who have been defending Meghan on SM?

There is no way that Edward could become the Duke of Edinburgh until Charles became King, the title “Duke of Edinburgh” merged back into the crown and was available to be reissued.

If Chucky III had died before QEII, the “Duke of Edinburgh” title would have passed “father to son” to Prince William. Upon the dearth of QEII and ascension of KCIII , the “Duke of Edinburgh” title passed to and merged with the Crown.

If Camilla gets to be Queen Consort due to QEII’s “wishes” then Edward should be “Duke of Edinburgh” due to QEII AND Philip’s “wishes”.

Since Andrew is retired Chucky III meeds the Wessexes more than ever to step=up and take on more work. Give your brother the title your mother wanted him to have.

@BayTampaBay, you explained this better than I did. I’m not a Sophie fan, but the title was promised to them. If William and Kate can become P&P of Wales shortly after QE2’s death, seemingly Edward can upgrade as well.

I agree. This is one case where I agree with Sophie. Philip and Liz wanted Edward and Sophie to get the titles, so he should just give it them. Charles certainly doesn’t need it. William doesn’t need it–he’s POW now. I know some said Anne could get it, and I admit it’s a sentimentally nice thought, but ultimately it should go to Edward because that’s what Philip wanted.

Yeah, the title was not Charles’ to hand out until the title reverted to the Crown (when he became king.) the title did not “revert” to Charles when his father died, it was passed down to him as the oldest son of the Duke of Edinburgh. It wasn’t available to be handed to Edward until the queen died.

now, the title should go to Edward.

What’s the current status of the Duke of Cambridge title now? Does Will still hold it in addition to POW? Would that be something to be passed to George?

William still holds all his titles and is currently the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge in addition to the POW title. George will ultimately inherit these titles when/if William becomes king, although POW isn’t inherited but conferred. And if William wanted, he could grant Louis the Cambridge dukedom if the DOY title isn’t available if Andrew is still alive. That normally goes to the second son of a monarch but that title might be shelved for awhile because of its tainted association with Andrew.

George will become Duke of Cornwall when William is king but I think Cambridge will revert to the crown, right?

I believe it does, so William could grant it to George but most logically Louis would get the title especially if the DOY one isn’t available or won’t be used.

Yes Cambridge would revert to the crown. I suspect charles might keep Edinburgh for George.

I wonder at CIII’s motives for not making Edward and Sophie the D&D of E. Does he enjoy seeing them sweat? Is he enjoying his new powers? It does seem seem unkind, but that doesn’t bother me as Sophie was such a bitchy Countess to Meghan. She needs to be reminded that it is so easy to be kind, and sometimes costly to be cruel. I have to wonder how CS treated Meghan in private quarters, and if she ever gave Camilla the cold shoulder.

Camilla would have been queen consort regardless of Elizabeth’s wishes or not (just as Camilla really WAS the Princess of Wales) — but having Elizabeth’s approval means the public will accept it.

Giving Edward Duke of Edinburgh was said before the whole fallout with Andrew. Maybe “understandings” changed in exchange for Andrew being protected after Elizabeth’s death? Or, Andrew’s Duke of York title was — at that time — a possibility to give to one of William’s children or grandchildren, because Andrew has no sons who can inherit. But now that the title is tainted, and will probably be retired after Andrew’s death, William will need something to replace it. Duke of Edinburgh would not be available if it goes to Edward because Edward has a son who would inherit it. On the other thread, some speculated it could go to Anne, which would make sense because her children would not be able to inherit from a woman, and it would be available again after Anne dies. At any rate, if William has his eye on that title for his son or eventual grandchild, Edward is out of luck.

This is my understanding of this unnecessary drama created by the press: The dukedom was supposed to be conferred after the death of both parents, and I think that was stated at the time. With Philip’s death, technically Charles would have inherited the title, because he is the eldest son, and the Queen, bizarre as it is, would be the dowager Duchess of Edinburgh, which is how titles work. Upon the Queen’s death and Charles’s elevation to king, the title reverts to the Crown, and can be remade for Edward. I’m sure the press knows how titles work; they just want to create controversy. That’s not to say that Charles isn’t petty and may have enjoyed making Edward and Sophie “suffer” so to speak.

Also, the Queen planned every second of this funeral week. (Another fact the press knows.) Do they think she didn’t have input into the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh thing?

“I want 12 spotlights in my hearse, not 10… and Charles can just figure out whatever he wants about Edward and Sophie and the titles, I don’t care what he does.”

That’s not to say Charles isn’t making decision despite her wishes, but there’s a plan. The bestowing of (real and fake) titles is the whole POINT of the monarchy.

I’m surprised that Edward wasn’t duke’d of someplace a long time ago unless it’s only 1 dukedom per person & he has to wait for DofE. Andy got York but Eddie’s just an earl? Does a duke’s wife automatically become the duchess or could the female title go to someone other than the spouse?

The story is that Edward asked to be titled “Earl of Wessex” because he heard the title in a movie and liked it. If not for that I’m pretty sure QEII would have dug up a duke title for him, as that has long been the custom when a son of the reigning monarch gets married. He gets a dukedom. So in a way, Edward played himself. It could have easily been “Edward gets dukedom whatever now, then when Philip passes and Charles eventually becomes king, dukedom whatever goes back to the crown and he becomes DoE.”

Ed saw the movie Shakespeare in Love and Colin Firth’s character was the Earl of Wessex. He liked the title so much that he asked his mother to create him that upon his wedding. Otherwise, he may have become the Duke of Cambridge. I suppose at the time it seemed logical to hold off on a dukedom for him if he was promised the DOE title, but who knew that down the line his elder brother would turn out to be such a petty vindictive guy. He probably should’ve grabbed his Duke title at the time and run with it.

That is so hilariously dumb that he wanted to be the Earl of Wessex because of a movie.

OMG, seriously?? That’s hilarious.

I suppose we should be grateful he didn’t ask for Count Chocula.

Edward and Sophie got married in 1999 when the BRF was not in a very great place after Diana’s death. Edward asking to “only” be Earl of Wessex rather than made a duke was supposedly his own choice (after a character in Shakespeare in Love) but was really an attempt to downplay the whole title business and make him look modest. The payoff was to be him getting the DofE title once his parents were gone. And yes, a duke’s wife automatically is allowed to style herself as a duchess and no one else can get it – it isn’t a real title, just a “courtesy title” derived from her being married to the duke.

Poor poor Sophie. To have been given promises and worked hard (which encompasses who knows what) to try and secure those promises – and then a change of regime changes it all. Poor Sophie, welcome to the rest of the world we plebes live in. Working are butts off and then a change in management changes it all. Poor poor Sophie.

Wondering how this works. Sophie never became princess regardless that her MIL was the queen nor did her kids get automatic prince/princess so why do H&M kids have the automatic title as grandkids of monarch ?? Sophie is not even a duchess yet . Can someone who knows more please explain

Sophie is technically Princess Edward but the title of Countess takes precedence. Her children did get the Prince / Princess titles, they just don’t use them.

It’s confusing because the press spent years using the wrong title for Diana – she was never Princess Diana, she was HRH the Princess of Wales and later Diana, Princess of Wales.

Princess Michael of Kent is the one active royal family member who uses “Princess [husband name].”

I personally think it’s because she wanted a royal title, and marrying the youngest son of the youngest son of a monarch wasn’t going to get her much. Being called “Princess”, regardless of what came after it, was all she wanted.

She’s also a racist POS, so there’s that.

@Molly Princess Michael is definitely a racist PoS, but that’s her only title, she doesn’t have any others to use. The others go by Countess of Wessex or Duchess of X because those are considered higher than, I.e., Princess Edward. (There’s also Princesses Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and Charlotte, but they are born royals so they get to be Princess Firstname.)

sophie, as a married-in female, is only entitled to the female version of her husband’s title. So since Edward was made an earl, not a duke, she was/is a countess. No non-blood royal becomes a princess in their own name, so Princess Diana, Princess Kate – incorrect. Kate is the Princess of Wales, but not Princess Kate. And that has nothing to do with her FIL being king in itself, its just because he named William Prince of Wales (so kate gets the feminine version of that.) Prince William, Prince Harry, Prince Andrew, etc are all because they were born royal.

there’s an old rule (the letters patent we keep discussing) that says that the grandchildren in the male line of the monarch are entitled to HRH Prince/ss. So that means that Sophie’s children were entitled to it, but it was announced at their wedding that their children would be styled differently. As Harry and Meghan’s children are now grandchildren in the male line of the monarch, they are now HRH Prince/ss.

The British royal family and their titles can be confusing. Sophie became HRH Princess Edward on her marriage. Edward was gifted the title of Earl of Wessex when he married so she also became the Countess of Wessex. If the British royals are given a title then they tend to use it rather than their original prince/princess title. She cannot be Princess Sophie since she is not a blood princess. Diana was incorrectly called Princess Diana when she married. Her official title was HRH The Princess of Wales. I have no idea about the grandchildren of a monarch and their titles 🙂

As Cerys said, Sophie IS royal, she is HRH Princess Edward. But she is also Countess of Wessex. Her children are not royal despite what Sophie tries to tell people (“they can choose when they turn 18”). When Edward got married, Elizabeth stated that his children shall NOT be styled “HRH” as children of a prince, but only styled as children of an earl. That’s why his son is Viscount Severn (Ed’s lesser title) and Louise is “Lady.” I know people think Ed’s kids are “HRH” because of the letters patent in 1917, but Elizabeth expressed her pleasure in 1999 to overrule the 1917 letters specifically with respect to Edward, and that’s all it takes to bestow or remove “HRH.”

Going forward, Ed’s kids can become HRH if Charles says so. That’s all it takes, an expression of the monarch’s pleasure. But I doubt Charles will do that. Alternatively, William can bestow that title when he eventually becomes king, so it doesn’t hurt for Sophie and Ed to kiss up to William too.

If Ed becomes Duke of Edinburgh, then James will likely start going by “Earl of Wessex” at that time.

We often goss about the PR leaks from BP, CH & KP. But *forget* Sophie had her own career working in PR. It would be remiss to think Sophie is not also putting out her own positive PR puff pieces (or someone on her pay role)

Does she need the title to laugh at brown people again and play dumb regarding Commonwealth gripes with the Crown, or…

I’m so glad you brought this up. There have been more than one story in the fail about her and also one about her daughter Louise! It was so obvious! They didn’t even wait until she was in the ground to start campaigning for the title

Question, could Anne and husband be given the position, as a female?. I heard Anne was Phillips favorate.. sorry Sophia, but I don’t like you, you nasty mean girl.

Spouses gotta be freaking! If the press is going to continue to focus on Meghan, and the family doesn’t want her in the parade…all spouses gotta stay in the car!

I don’t care if Charles is petty to Edward and sophie. He is much more petty to Archie and lili and their parents. Sophie is mean just like Kate , she just is better at hiding it and Edward is just as racist so whatever Charles doesn’t give them they both deserve.

It was reported at the time of their wedding that Edward will inherit the Duke of Edinburgh although it would legally revert to now king. At that time, he assured both of his parents that he will honour their wishes in that regard, Sophie is expecting that he does that. It was passed on to the fail, that all talk of titles in general is premature, that all info regarding titles will be announced after a period of mourning.

That would include whether the Sussexes children will have their HRH.

Edward was a dummy who turned down Duke of Sussex(I think) at his wedding preferring Earl of Wessex. No tears for him or Fiesta. They have a gigantic estate and live pretty well so they should work hard.

Probably a dumb question, but why didn’t QE2 give Eddie a dukedom when he married Fiesta? I mean, she could have. Not DoE, obviously, as that was taken at the time, but some other rando dukedom?

Edited: oh it WAS a dumb question! He turned down a rando dukedom! Well then. Stay a Countess, Fiesta.

Yeah, good luck with that. But if KC was smart, he’d stop being an a-hole and bestow the title on his younger brother. He needs all the help and positive PR he can get and the people see that the Wessexes actually “work.” Maybe increase their budget so Sophie can up her style game, sheesh. Also, increasing the visibility of the Wessexes might prove a valuable incentive to get the Wales off their asses (they’re not supposed to be overshadowed you know). More jockeying of positions and the Queen hasn’t even had her funeral yet…

On the other hand, let’s be patient about this. Charles has to “create” the title again, and he will do so after a period of mourning is over. At the same time, he can think about not issuing new letters patent to take away Archie and Lili’s birthright. That’s assuming Charles will do the right thing.

Lol. This along with Anne getting a new elevated title? I got my money on Anne being named Duchess of Edinburgh. KC has no love for Edward and he hates how Edward and Sophie put themselves out there the way they have.

“Sophie was a “second daughter” to the Queen.” This is insulting to Anne, as if she we not enough and a woman with no royal blood was needed to prop up the queen.

Sophie and Edward will fade out now that the queen is gone. Kate and William don’t need her and Charles is indifferent. They have no charisma, so the press barely covers their events.

Isabella, I don’t think it takes anything away from Anne if Elizabeth thought of Sophie as a second daughter. I’m not sure what “royal” blood has to do with it. Wow, talk about classist.

I think CIIIPO needs to take a look around him and count the number of people who are working. Other than Fails & Wails and Anne, who is working? Not TQ’s cousins because they should be allowed to retire, and I suspect they will.

He either needs to keep the Wessexes working, or he needs to find other warm bodies. Anne is only 2 years younger than he is, so she’s not going to be working for very long. Fails&Wails take up space, but work is not part of that space. I think he’d be smart to bring in Beatrice & Edo, assuming that they would do it. They might be okay with Uncle Chuck, but I don’t think they want to be dependent on Cousin Fails for anything.

I don’t think Sophie was all that close to the Queen. I think that has been exaggerated. Sophie did say some indiscreet things about the royals to the fake sheik. The QUeen may have forgiven her but I doubt it made Sophie a second daughter.

The way I understood it Sophie and Edward couldn’t be made DOE/Duchess until the Queen died. Charles as the oldest son inherited DOE. It reverted to the crown when Charles became King, and now would need to be recreated for Edward. It was both the Queen’s and Philip’s wish so it’s going to look bad if he doesn’t do it. This is an easy win for him.

I hope he gives to Anne, full stop.

But if it was Charles’ plan all along to give Edward the DofE when he became king, then why not make that clear? At least in private to E & S, he could have assured them, so they wouldn’t have to embark on these embarrassing “please make us Ds of E please please please, mummy said you have to!” campaigns. Plus, I seem to remember a spokesperson for Charles stating on the record that E is NOT going to be DofE. I think Charles doesnt want E to become DofE because he knows how much E would unwittingly do to further the Independence movement in Scotland, just by being his classiest, elitest, tone deaf self

The fact is, regardless of what his parents wanted, Charles is now King. This is the same guy who said he wouldn’t remarry after divorcing Diana, then that his current wife wouldn’t be named queen, yet here she is. He will do what he wants to do, and Sophie needs to stop begging. Charles does not like “pushy” women. Maybe they’ll get it, maybe not. They’re still wallpaper. Also, this woman does not know how to dress herself. The term blousy comes to mind.

I hope she gets the title she wants. She’s allowed to be ambitious. Right?

Not in their world, at least not overtly, and she’s all in on that way of thinking. Don’t they want these women to know their place?

I think the Wessexes should get it, if only for the hilarity of Scotland leaving and taking the dukedom with them. If Edinburgh is no longer part of the UK, what then? Might as well be Duke and Duchess of Jersey.

IMO, Sophie and Edward and their kids should be promoted somehow. W&K and their kids have a solid 10-12 year range before George, etc. can be moved into working royals. Anne is what 72 y/o? Nobody should expect her to work more. Heck, she out works Kate for years already. Andrew has got to be out all together. That leaves Edward and family to pull some of the weight of royal duties. Are Andrews daughters going to move up their royal schedules? Are they popular or skilled enough to draw crowds of supporters? King Charles can talk “stream lining” all he wants to but, it’s gonna be tricky keeping the Monarchy open for business as usual. Australia has several celebs/politicians who’ve stated they want Australia to govern itself. I read a few articles in which they were careful to say how much they love The Queen, and now is not yet time to put it to a vote….but I wonder in 2-5 years time will their still be countries willing to stay under KC3? Canada seems to mellow and polite to move on, yet. Yet.

Charles has plenty on his plate. His advisors had better be very good. I keep thinking what if Charles passes in a few years? Does anyone think William, at barely 40, could do the job? Not yet.

I doubt Charles will let Bea and Eugenie do royal duties. I think Eugenie would not want to in any case. Louise is going to University and James will go in a few years. I don’t think they will do royal work either. He has to get William and especially Kate to work a lot more

If Charles makes it known he wants Louis to get the title, it won’t happen for the Wessexes. William would also want Louis to have the title so the Wessexes can give up the idea Charles may bestow it but make the wessexes wait.

I think there has so much white-washing around why Sophie and Edward and their titles.

However I did find @Mrs.Krabapple’s post very interesting.

It’s also interesting the narrative that has been weaved around Edward i.e. (1) he liked a title and so gave up the opportunity to a Dukedom and (2) Prince Philip wanted his son to inherit his Dukedom.

No 2 sounds vaguely plausible but No1 sounds like a fairy tale made up by courtiers to cover up the fact that the Queen likely didn’t want to give Sophie a Duchess title based on past events. My reasoning being (1) Edward and Sophie had been together over 5 years before he proposed and during that time both of them gave various interviews in which he made it clear, very publicly that they had no plans to get married.

Shortly before E&S were due to get married her colleagues at Capital Radio leaked topless pictures of her and she was constantly embroiled in scandal around that time. Also Sophie actually proposed something similar to what H&M wanted and the Queen actually allowed it – and Sophie continued working for the PR firm she had set up. In any case the media were obsessed by Sophie at the time and really went for her and she was later caught up in the fake Sheikh controversy, which conveniently meant she had to become a full time working Royal. During that sting Sophie made numerous rude and disparaging comments about the Queen and alluded to her being able to use her position to influence (watch the tapes – they’re gold).

Fast forward and she is now a very hardworking fulltime Royal.

Anyway all the above to say that I think the Wessex’s were not given a Dukedom bc at the time the Queen did not like or trust Sophie. I suspect that they didn’t see Sophie and Eddy going the distance or her adapting to their way of life as a very driven career woman. Also it was all shortly after the time of Diana’s death so the Queen would have been sensitive to that also.

Clearly Sophie then worked incredibly hard to be accepted by Liz and Filip but I really don’t buy the Shakespeare in love story.

I haven’t forgotten how Fiesta was horrid to Meghan. I hope Sophie gets nothing.

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